joey jojo

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Posts by joey jojo

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  126

  Overlapping Generation

  by pandorasbox1914 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the september 2015 broadcast had david splane explain matthew 24:34 “truly, i say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”.

  his explanation of this scripture was by means of a chart to indicate an overlapping generation.. .

  no scripture was used to show the overlapping generation concept, and as a result it makes no sense.. to illustrate how crazy this concept is, look at the lyrics of the song my generation.. my generation.

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  joey jojo

  If you were born after an event occurred, then you didn't witness that event and cannot call yourself a member of the generation that saw the event.

  Knowing people that saw it isn't the same.
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  37

  Lloyd Evans exploitation videos.

  by phoenixrising in

  1. social
  2. current

  i used to watch his videos on the monthly gb talks.

  he has went over the top a few times doing one video on why being liberal idiot is a good thing.

  he has made comments on the usa not knowing shit about what he was desperately trying to talk about.

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  joey jojo

  Phoenix, I haven't seen the video you are talking about yet, so I cant really comment about that at this time.

  I just wanted to say that some of my American friends that I have made over the years are really surprised by the amount of news the rest of the world gets about American subjects. I'm in Australia and there is something about the US every day in the news. It isn't just because Trump is in office, its always been this way. Some people probably feel they know a bit about American life and your politics because we hear so much about it.

  Your politics affects the decisions of your allies, like the UK, so people take an interest.
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  9

  Jehovahs Dodge Claim

  by smiddy3 in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  "victims say cash moved offshore".

  i just thought you might be interested in how widespread this article has been taken up by the media in australia.. west australian newspaper , herald sun sunday victorian newspaper ,the daily telegraph n.s.w.

  newspaper,.

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  joey jojo

  https://www.acnc.gov.au/charity/db994d2f8dec3cdfdbca01e8c8e28da9#overview

  This is a link to the orgs charitable details in Australia including financials. Looks like each congregation is separately registered as a charity.
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  60

  Is it me or is John Cedars channel becoming a self important circle fest

  by phoenixrising in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  i still like the commentary on the jw.org monthly’s, i can skip through some parts.

  but it seems like he is pushing too hard to put out videos and the quality is getting very low on the content..

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  joey jojo

  I find his videos interesting. He seems to put a lot of thought into them. Maybe they could be a little shorter but you can always skip forward.

  Also, if he is making a few bucks off an organisation that has taken a lot from him personally, then good for him.
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  44

  Do You Think We Will Ever Get Back To “Normal”?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i hope that within the next several months we will get back to some type of normalcy.

  will restaurants ever get filled again?

  will you ever be able to sit at a bar or go to a concert or broadway show?.

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  joey jojo

  Hopefully this will teach us to do things better. If it's normal to sit in congested traffic for hours a week just to get to a job to spend another 50 hours a week, well maybe the old normal wasn't that great.

  I'm reminded of the saying, 'you see who has been swimming naked when the tide goes out'. This pandemic has exposed a lot of weaknesses in society that will be painful to overcome, but there has also been plenty of creativity.
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  joey jojo

  DW,

  If you are saying that the catholic church retrospectively slapped the title of bishop onto very early overseers in an attempt to tie them to the catholic church, maybe you're right. I don't know.

  The earliest mention of the word catholic that I could find was 110 ad, so that's actually quite early and there would have been people alive that may have been contemporaries of some of the disciples. The muratorian fragment also mentions the word catholic.

  What would become the catholic church was responsible for compiling letters of the apostles and letters of correspondence between early congregations, preserving and copying them. The church claims an unbroken line of successors of the apostles. So I guess the sticking point for you is, at what stage did Christians become catholics?

  The article I linked was another example of the disingenuous writing style of the wt. They tell part of the story so that reader is never presented with the full picture.
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  joey jojo

  Eusebius lived during the 4th century, after Christianity was legalised and the church was in full swing. I understand your point about the earliest overseers, or bishops, the generation that 'overlapped' (tm) with the apostles of Jesus.

  However, the argument could be made that further contemporaries of those men and the ones that came after led to the formation of the catholic church, which then was responsible for, among other things, canonising scripture.

  If the wt has referred to these men as apostolic fathers in the past, why not do the same in this article?
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  joey jojo

  Drearyweather, the research I did names all 4 of the men I mentioned as bishops, in various cities. Are you saying that being a catholic bishop today is a far cry from those guys in status, power and privilege? If so, I'm sure you're right, but they are still given the title of bishops today, and at the very least, were not merely commentators as the wt would have us believe.
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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  joey jojo

  Cheers,

  It's so frustrating the way the org takes a stance on a subject and then cobbles together a story to fit their narrative.

  The wts writers are at their devious best; misquotes, out of context quotes, diminishing or overstating the qualifications of quoted people as they see fit and of course, their absolute favourite, the use of ellipses.....

  They also manage to avoid the use of the word 'catholic' throughout the whole article, except to say, 'the catholic church had nothing to do with it.'
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  20

  Bible canon conundrums

  by joey jojo in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is a topic that i find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the jw organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the catholic church in its development.. here is the official stance of the org: .

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15.

  'the roman catholic church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the councils of hippo (a.d. 393) and carthage (a.d. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated.

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• 

  joey jojo

  This is a topic that I find really interesting- how the bible, in particular, the new testament was compiled and how the JW organisation strives to negate, scoff at and diminish the influence of the Catholic church in its development.

  Here is the official stance of the org:

  https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/library/r1/lp-e/all-publications/watchtower/the-watchtower-1963/april-15
  

  'The Roman Catholic Church claims responsibility for the decision as to which books should be included in the canon, and reference is made to the Councils of Hippo (A.D. 393) and Carthage (A.D. 397), where catalogues of books were formulated. The opposite is true, however, for the canon was already settled by then, not by the decree of any council, but by the usage of Christian congregations throughout the ancient world.'

  
  

  After this startling proclamation, the org then quotes early church bishops in establishing which books were accepted as canon and being used and read.

  
  

  'Irenaeus argues, about A.D. 190, that there were just four Gospels. His term ‘fourfold gospel’ shows that he knew the Gospels as a collection, and he recommended these writings as the rule or canon of truth. (Against Heresies III. 11.8) Clement of Alexandria, indicating both the authority and collected form of the Gospels, states, “We do not find this saying in the four gospels that have been handed down to us, but in that according to the Egyptians.”—Miscellanies III. 13.'

  
  

  'The book of Revelation is attested to by a unanimity of early commentators including Papias, Justin, Melito and Irenaeus.6 (Fragments of Papias 8) It was rejected by some in the East because its teachings were unacceptable to certain schools of thought. But this did not disturb its general reception Even at this early date due regard was also paid to having a correct text, as Irenaeus informs us in referring to Revelation 13:18 when he remarks, “The number is thus found in all the genuine and ancient copies.”—Ecclesiastical History of Eusebius, p. 188.'

  
  

  'This leaves James and Jude and the epistles of Peter and John. There was never any difficulty with First Peter and First John, Papias and Polycarp being among the early testimonies for their authority. (Fragments of Papias 6; The Epistle of Polycarp to the Philippians 2, 7)'

  
  

  'Second Peter has been questioned most by critics, but Irenaeus uses it, (Irenaeus Against Heresies 5.23.2 and 5.28.3)'
  

  
  

  'In a letter written by Theodore of Egypt in the fourth century the apocryphal writings are referred to as “the lying waters of which so many drank,”7 and the Muratorian list speaks of them as gall which should not be mixed with honey.4 So the Christian community was careful to protect the integrity of its writings.'

  
  

  So there are a few quotes from this particular article, presenting the argument that it was God alone, through his holy spirit that chose the books for the new testament, all the while, relying on the evidence of the early church leaders as to which books were considered acceptable for christianity.

  
  

  Another deceitful tactic is to quote men like, Eusebius, Polycarp, Papias and Irenaeus as historians, or writers, when in fact they were all early Bishops of the catholic church.

  
  

  On the one hand, the org claims that the canon was closed and established before any church councils, or catholic intervention and yet, accepts the version of the bible adopted by the protestant reformation, which came 1500 years after Christ. To make it more confusing, some protestant bibles include the apocrypha.
  

  
  

  There is so much to this subject and I haven't even scratched the surface. Also, this has been discussed on this forum a lot and by people far more qualified than me, so I have included some links to some threads that have further information.

  
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/206535/how-when-new-testament-compiled
  

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/107694/bible-canon-muratorian-fragment-wtbts